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Garrett LeSage

:

is inaccessible for those with:

- mobility issues

- scent sensitivities (no policy against perfume, uses smelly soap in bathrooms); this affects around 30% of the population

- who need/want CC for videos

And refused:

- to have a code of conduct for years; have no real means of enforcing the one they have now

- to implement any kind of sickness mitigation (COVID, "FOSDEM Flu", or other), including encouraging masks and ventilation

And promotes:

- cryptocurrency
- billionaires

Jan 17, 2025, 09:19 AM·Public·Web
19boosts·31favorites
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Garrett LeSage

does do a lot of good too, bringing people together and promoting Free Software. And there are amazing people putting together the event every year — especially the tons of volunteers spending their time and effort to make this all happen.

But promoting the ideals of Free and Open Source Software is all the more reason they should really respect their audience, be inclusive, and try to be better.

(People critical of FOSDEM aren't attacking it; we all want it to be better.)

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Moritz Poldrack :arch:

@garrett as someone with the smell-sensitivity as part of a wider sensory overload condition: please, dont stop raising awareness. Its a surprisingly massive influence a lot of normal™ people don't even think about.

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Garrett LeSage

@mpldr I find it wild that scientific studies keep finding that around 30% of *all people worldwide* are negatively affected by smells to some degree (even to severely disabling levels — such as not being able to breathe — @ 9.5% of *everyone*)...

link.springer.com/article/10.1

...Yet companies keep infusing everything with unidentified scents (especially artificial ones), causing it to be on other people (perfumes), in rooms, in soaps & deodorants, and so much more. It's basically unavoidable.

SpringerLinkInternational prevalence of fragrance sensitivity - Air Quality, Atmosphere & HealthEmissions and exposures from fragranced consumer products, such as air fresheners and cleaning supplies, have been associated with health problems and societal impacts. This study investigates effects of fragranced consumer products on the general population in four countries: United States, Australia, United Kingdom, and Sweden. Nationally representative population surveys (n = 1137; 1098; 1100; 1100) found that, across the four countries, 32.2% of adults (34.7%, 33.0%, 27.8%, 33.1% respectively) report fragrance sensitivity; that is, adverse health effects from fragranced consumer products. For instance, 17.4% report health problems from air fresheners or deodorizers, and 15.7% from being in a room cleaned with scented products. Commonly reported health problems include respiratory difficulties (16.7%), mucosal symptoms (13.2%), migraine headaches (12.6%), skin rashes (9.1%), and asthma attacks (7.0%). For 9.5% of the population, the severity of health effects can be considered disabling. Further, 9.0% of the population have lost workdays or lost a job, in the past year, due to illness from fragranced product exposure in the workplace. Personal estimated costs due to these lost workdays and lost jobs, across the four countries in one year, exceed $146 billion (USD). A majority of people across the countries would prefer that workplaces, health care facilities and professionals, hotels, and airplanes were fragrance-free rather than fragranced. The study highlights a concern for public health and societal well-being, as well as an approach to reduce risks and costs: reduce exposure to fragranced products.
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Elric

@garrett You're welcome not to attend.

These kinds of toxic rants do nothing to help improve the conference.

If you have a free venue of equal size with improved accessibility: great, donate it. If you have the time to improve the bathrooms: great, go for it.

If you don't want to attend talks on/by cryptocurrency/billionaires: great, don't attend them.

No one is forcing anyone to be there. No conference is perfect. But unless you're actively making it better, moaning simply makes it worse.

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Garrett LeSage

@elricofmelnibone You're completely missing the point.

I attended for years, but was forced to not attend due to their lack of a response to COVID, flu, etc.

I pointed out these (and the other) problems to people in charge, and they shrugged, not caring.

I made transcripts for several videos and tried to contribute them, but they did not want to accept them.

I've been deeply involved in FOSS since 1996, and want FOSDEM to be better. They don't want to be better in any meaningful way.

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Garrett LeSage

@elricofmelnibone I've tried to help FOSDEM be better, but they don't want to be.

I'm not doing any "toxic rant" at all.

The first step to fixing a problem is pointing out the issues and having someone admit there's a problem, so they can fix it.

FOSDEM refuses to fix their problems, and are actively getting worse each year instead.

If everyone ignores the issues, they'll never be fixed.

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Garrett LeSage

@elricofmelnibone I've tried to help out and improve FOSDEM in many different ways over the years, but they just don't want any of that.

What have you ever done to try to improve FOSDEM?

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Garrett LeSage

@elricofmelnibone But, overall:

Is it really too much to ask for basic safety and wellbeing of the people who would like to participate?

Is it "toxic" to want to have my own health respected? Is it "toxic" to ask for (and even try to help out) the venue to even attempt to make their space safe and accessible for others?

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Elric

@garrett Yes it is too much to ask.

A venue with 8000 participants CANNOT cater to every possible whim, allergy, disability, and preference. Believe me, they try. But it is impossible. You want a scent free conference (good luck in ANY venue with 8k people). Crazy swedish politicians don't want any bananas around. I'm sure someone doesn't like the colour purple.

And no, I did not skip the good part of your thread. I found it to be wholly inconsequential after a lot of pointless bashing.

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Garrett LeSage

@elricofmelnibone Sure, but it could at least attempt to try, as other conferences do, to accommodate 1/3 of the entire population of earth.

link.springer.com/article/10.1

And I made many other points that impact other large percentages of the population too.

(None of my points were made up strawman argument, like yours. And I didn't include a single one that was about a preference. They were all about basic human needs for large percentages of the population. So, please, knock off your nonsense.)

SpringerLinkInternational prevalence of fragrance sensitivity - Air Quality, Atmosphere & HealthEmissions and exposures from fragranced consumer products, such as air fresheners and cleaning supplies, have been associated with health problems and societal impacts. This study investigates effects of fragranced consumer products on the general population in four countries: United States, Australia, United Kingdom, and Sweden. Nationally representative population surveys (n = 1137; 1098; 1100; 1100) found that, across the four countries, 32.2% of adults (34.7%, 33.0%, 27.8%, 33.1% respectively) report fragrance sensitivity; that is, adverse health effects from fragranced consumer products. For instance, 17.4% report health problems from air fresheners or deodorizers, and 15.7% from being in a room cleaned with scented products. Commonly reported health problems include respiratory difficulties (16.7%), mucosal symptoms (13.2%), migraine headaches (12.6%), skin rashes (9.1%), and asthma attacks (7.0%). For 9.5% of the population, the severity of health effects can be considered disabling. Further, 9.0% of the population have lost workdays or lost a job, in the past year, due to illness from fragranced product exposure in the workplace. Personal estimated costs due to these lost workdays and lost jobs, across the four countries in one year, exceed $146 billion (USD). A majority of people across the countries would prefer that workplaces, health care facilities and professionals, hotels, and airplanes were fragrance-free rather than fragranced. The study highlights a concern for public health and societal well-being, as well as an approach to reduce risks and costs: reduce exposure to fragranced products.
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QuadRadical

@garrett hmm, the scent one seems like it would be especicially simple, even with just replacing the soap in the bathrooms. what are the reasons for not doing this, @fosdem?

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Sebastian "spaetz" Spaeth

@QuadRadical @garrett @fosdem Err, this is a **university** campus. Good luck in finding all restrooms and getting permission to exchange the universities soap for 2 days. It's not like you could just run into a drug store and buy 2 dispensers and be done with it. 🤗

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Garrett LeSage

@spaetz @QuadRadical @fosdem It doesn't require luck. It requires caring enough to make an attempt.

They could:

- have a fragrance-free policy that encourages people to attend to avoid stinky products

- remind people about this in opening sessions (among other things they already ask people to think about)

- encourage the university to handle this themselves too

- set up at least a bathroom or few to be accessible

This affects a third of the population worldwide.

link.springer.com/article/10.1

SpringerLinkInternational prevalence of fragrance sensitivity - Air Quality, Atmosphere & HealthEmissions and exposures from fragranced consumer products, such as air fresheners and cleaning supplies, have been associated with health problems and societal impacts. This study investigates effects of fragranced consumer products on the general population in four countries: United States, Australia, United Kingdom, and Sweden. Nationally representative population surveys (n = 1137; 1098; 1100; 1100) found that, across the four countries, 32.2% of adults (34.7%, 33.0%, 27.8%, 33.1% respectively) report fragrance sensitivity; that is, adverse health effects from fragranced consumer products. For instance, 17.4% report health problems from air fresheners or deodorizers, and 15.7% from being in a room cleaned with scented products. Commonly reported health problems include respiratory difficulties (16.7%), mucosal symptoms (13.2%), migraine headaches (12.6%), skin rashes (9.1%), and asthma attacks (7.0%). For 9.5% of the population, the severity of health effects can be considered disabling. Further, 9.0% of the population have lost workdays or lost a job, in the past year, due to illness from fragranced product exposure in the workplace. Personal estimated costs due to these lost workdays and lost jobs, across the four countries in one year, exceed $146 billion (USD). A majority of people across the countries would prefer that workplaces, health care facilities and professionals, hotels, and airplanes were fragrance-free rather than fragranced. The study highlights a concern for public health and societal well-being, as well as an approach to reduce risks and costs: reduce exposure to fragranced products.
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Garrett LeSage

@spaetz @QuadRadical @fosdem Other conferences and universities have done this already. This isn't uncharted territory.

oit.colorado.edu/about-oit/con

dcc.uic.edu/news-stories/fragr

Again, this affects 1/3 people to some degree, and there are many reasons why, including but not limited to:

Asthma, allergies, Mast Cell Activation Disorders, Mastocytosis, COPD, Alpha-1 Antitrypsin Deficiency, migraines, and many more.

Plus, perfume is often carcinogenic.

It's more than just "soap in a bathroom".

oit.colorado.eduFragrance-Free Initiative | Office of Information TechnologyThe mission of the initiative is to create a comfortable work environment for all by encouraging staff and visitors to minimize their use of products containing fragrance. The fragrance chemicals within these products can cause adverse health effects or discomfort for others.
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Garrett LeSage

@spaetz @QuadRadical @fosdem And that's just 1 of many points I made where FOSDEM drops that ball. They can do better, and they should at least try to be better.

The entire point of Free Software movement is to be aspirational, work together to solve things, and benefit everyone.

(Yes, software licenses were part of that, but that was a tool, not the entire point of it.)

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Sebastian "spaetz" Spaeth

@garrett @QuadRadical @fosdem oh, I am with you on the fragrance-free policy. And sure, a few select places could be provided with fragrance-free soap.

But I do work at a university, and there is no way to get such an organization to change their procurement based kn libbying by a single group.

And, yes, I manufacture my own fragrance-free olive oil soap, I do know what you are talking about.

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Jim Salter

@garrett sounds a lot like SELF here in the southeastern United States, on a larger stage.

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haui

@garrett yikes. I hope I wont regret going there for the first time this year aber visiting #38c3 in december. I hope its not tech bro distopia.

I did hear that there will be a nice sit in organized by someone. That sounds like its gonna be fun.

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jahway603 :archlinux:

@garrett it was upsetting to hear that the keynote this year was Dorsey - he's never done anything for the free or open source communities.

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Robin Syl 🌸:blobcat_box: :heart_nb:

@garrett I'm autistic, and finding a quiet place to rest has been an issue last time I visited FOSDEM with friends, and is a reason I do not wish to attend again despite the interesting talks

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Garrett LeSage

@robinsyl 💯 Having a quiet place is so great.

This is probably one of the easier accessibility things they could do too.

Some conferences, like DevConf (also at a university) set aside rooms for this purpose and print out special signs for the doors.

I'm also sometimes overwhelmed by crowds and loud sounds, and have used the room at DevConf.

When at FOSDEM years ago, I'd often have to skip talks I'd want to see and be outside away from others or go way off campus for a long, quiet lunch.

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michiel

@garrett I never expected to see someone complain that FOSDEM attendants use *too much* deodorant. But I suppose I'm now aware of a new barrier to inclusion.

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gvs
When I saw this I thought it was parody. But your serious!?
How do people like you get through a day being so afraid.
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