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#webobjects

7 posts1 participant0 posts today
Johannes Brakensiek<p>Those guys called Apple's <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/JavaClient" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>JavaClient</span></a> their "best kept secret" in 2009. Quite understandable why.</p><p><a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com/msg28020.html" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://www.</span><span class="ellipsis">mail-archive.com/webobjects-de</span><span class="invisible">v@lists.apple.com/msg28020.html</span></a></p><p><a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a></p>
Johannes Brakensiek<p><a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Swing" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Swing</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Cocoa" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Cocoa</span></a>: It isn't suprising when you look into it. For <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Apple" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Apple</span></a> not only reimplemented <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Foundation" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Foundation</span></a> in <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Java" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Java</span></a> (com.webobjects.foundation), they also made a <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Cocoa" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Cocoa</span></a> abstraction layer that mimics layout and behaviour in <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Swing" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Swing</span></a> (com.webobjects.eointerface.swing). </p><p>That one still works (<a href="https://fosstodon.org/@lazarus/114252747377471833" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="ellipsis">fosstodon.org/@lazarus/1142527</span><span class="invisible">47377471833</span></a>), while the bridge to Cocoa has been deprecated with WebObjects 5.4 (and thus is not part of its docs anymore).</p><p>Compare <a href="https://leopard-adc.pepas.com/documentation/InternetWeb/Reference/WO542Reference/index.html" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="ellipsis">leopard-adc.pepas.com/document</span><span class="invisible">ation/InternetWeb/Reference/WO542Reference/index.html</span></a> to <a href="https://leopard-adc.pepas.com/documentation/WebObjects/Reference/WO53_Reference/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="ellipsis">leopard-adc.pepas.com/document</span><span class="invisible">ation/WebObjects/Reference/WO53_Reference/</span></a>.</p>
Johannes Brakensiek<p>I mean, it doesn't look as gorgeous on <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/elementaryOS" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>elementaryOS</span></a>, but still, it works.</p><p><a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Java" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Java</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/D2JC" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>D2JC</span></a></p>
Johannes Brakensiek<p>Ok, it even works using JDK 17 when you add `--add-exports java.base/sun.security.action=ALL-UNNAMED` as JVM option.</p><p><a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Java" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Java</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/D2JC" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>D2JC</span></a></p>
Johannes Brakensiek<p>It‘s just lovely how they made these <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Swing" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Swing</span></a> apps look like <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Cocoa" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Cocoa</span></a> .</p><p><a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Java" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Java</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a></p>
Johannes Brakensiek<p>Think I got it running. It is aged. But aged very well. The client of this almost 30 years old example runs quite nicely, errors only point to SQL/model setup.</p><p><a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/D2JC" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>D2JC</span></a></p>
Johannes Brakensiek<p>Think I‘ll reread that <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a> Desktop Application docs. They are just delicious.</p>
Johannes Brakensiek<p>Hm, really tired of this <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/MSAccess" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>MSAccess</span></a>, <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/LibreOfficeBase" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>LibreOfficeBase</span></a> database application stuff. I need a quick way to create a "main/detail" GUI from a database.</p><p>There once was <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a> and that really nice <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/JavaClient" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>JavaClient</span></a> stuff.</p><p>Is there anything else, existing to this day?</p><p>I know of<br>- <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Apache" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Apache</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Cayenne" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Cayenne</span></a> (only ORM, no GUI generation)<br>- <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/ManyDesigns" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>ManyDesigns</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Portofino" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Portofino</span></a> (very close, but only web GUI. Thanks to <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://hostsharing.coop/@peter" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>peter</span></a></span> for that hint some time ago).</p><p>Do you know of anything? <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.social/@helge" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>helge</span></a></span> </p><p><a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/Boost" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Boost</span></a></p>
Helge Heß<p>I think for that you don’t want structural identity because the structure will eventually change.<br>But assigning global identity (like a DOM id) conflicts with componentization. There has to be something in the middle, a path builder that is not tied to the exact structure. <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/SwiftUI" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>SwiftUI</span></a></p>
Helge Heß<p>It’s not usually an issue in SwiftUI because an app upgrade implies a restart, but I wonder whether such things leak in for stuff like state restoration <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/SwiftUI" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>SwiftUI</span></a></p>
Helge Heß<p>Do you remember those <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a> links like “http://Dodge.woa/wo/2.3.2.4.1.1.1.1.2.3.4.5”? Those (usually numeric paths) are essentially a representation of the thing that is called “structural identity” in <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/SwiftUI" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>SwiftUI</span></a>.<br>I.e. the button in the pic would produce a link like `.woa/wo/2.2` to represent a click on the second item in the `ForEach`.<br>It's problematic on the web, because links can be long-living, but the server may upgrade and have a different structure.</p>
Georg Tuparev<p>Lately I was thinking why <a href="https://mstdn.social/tags/SwiftUI" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>SwiftUI</span></a> ecosystem does not have many open-source reusable extensions. (The first framework with reusable components I did contribute was MiscKit for AppKit, ca 1991). Still, the best example is <a href="https://mstdn.social/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a></p><p>I think the reason is the inability to parametrise. Like configure a reusable view with external data (e.g. JSON, XML). The focus of the most reusable frameworks is on developing controllers that use an external data dynamically configure the reusable components.</p>
Helge Heß<p>That was a fun one, I couldn't press the "Logs" tab in an installation, or "Configuration" buttons. Everything else worked. It turned out that the frontend proxy had mod_security enabled. The URL for the logs tab is the usual crazy <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a> link: "/OpenGroupware.woa/wo/00B300B30167410612/0056741063353276880.19.1.1.1.h.11.log".<br>This was treated by mod_security as an attempt to download a log file and made it block it, i.e. it consideres `.log` as a file extension 🙂</p>
Georg Tuparev<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.social/@airspeedswift" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>airspeedswift</span></a></span> </p><p>Actually this talk already “paid” for my flight from Sofia to London! 🎉</p><p>We have about 1.500.000 of <a href="https://mstdn.social/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a> LOC that is getting rusty, and we slowly are moving to <a href="https://mstdn.social/tags/swift" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>swift</span></a>. I only hope we can use (and contribute to) the interop for older (ancient) version of Java. I hope you at  have the same pain, so you know what I am talking about! 😂</p>
XANTRONIX<p>I am installing <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://social.coop/@mattl" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>mattl</span></a></span>'s favourite framework ever rn</p><p><a href="https://xantronix.social/tags/retrocomputing" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>retrocomputing</span></a> <a href="https://xantronix.social/tags/apple" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>apple</span></a> <a href="https://xantronix.social/tags/macintosh" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>macintosh</span></a> <a href="https://xantronix.social/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a></p>
Georg Tuparev<p>Great news for all of us, old <a href="https://mstdn.social/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a> dinosaurs!</p><p>Our team will be very happy to help with this initiative, that was announce at <a href="https://mstdn.social/tags/serversideswift2024" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>serversideswift2024</span></a> After all, I think we have the largest WebObjects installed base outside Apple.</p><p><a href="https://github.com/swiftlang/swift-java" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="ellipsis">github.com/swiftlang/swift-jav</span><span class="invisible">a</span></a></p>
Helge Heß<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.social/@fbartho" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>fbartho</span></a></span> Yes, I wrote SwiftWebUI in the week when <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/SwiftUI" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>SwiftUI</span></a> got released. Do not use it for something real, it is essentially <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a> converted to the SwiftUI API. I.e. it holds all state server side and each click means a new page gets generated (with URLs holding the identity of the activated element).<br>It really isn't suitable for real world apps. I have some ideas how one might make it more useful, but no time for that 🙂</p>
Helge Heß<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://f.duriansoftware.com/@joe" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>joe</span></a></span> If that wasn't enough to get you interested, he also seems well versed in <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a>, EOF, PDO and the "<a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/NeXT" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>NeXT</span></a> Universal ORB". I assume.</p>
Helge Heß<p>Blast from the past. <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a>, well, not exactly 🤓</p>
Helge Heß<p>That's what an editor for an actually declarative UI system looks like 🙂 <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/WebObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WebObjects</span></a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/NeXT" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>NeXT</span></a></p>
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