covid, ethics 

A quick look at data on Switzerland indicates that the vast majority of covid deaths (~90%) are accounted for by people over the age of 80 who are not vaccinated

ourworldindata.org/grapher/cov

ourworldindata.org/grapher/swi

Does this not imply that the great majority of deaths comes from voluntary non-vaccination in the group of people are aware of what death means?

I fail to make a convincing argument for current corona measures given this information.

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covid, ethics 

Addendum: IF compulsory vaccination THEN in reverse age order.

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covid, ethics 

Addendum II: compulsory vaccination in reverse age order OR denial of service to people suffering from (purely) covid related symptoms.

(Other non-status-quo options?)

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covid, ethics 

@douginamug
I'm not seeing a chart of death by age.

covid, ethics 

@cjd Ourworldindata only lets you do one decade-group at a time, vacc/unvacc :/

covid, ethics 

@douginamug
If I understand you well, your point would be that not getting vaccinated is not particularly harmful to other people, more just to one's self - and therefore compulsory vaccination is an undue abrogation of civil liberties for the value it provides ?

covid, ethics 

@cjd I think so.

And I see the general restriction of civil liberties to be more damaging than compulsory vaccination.

Removing the general restrictions is of significant concern to me (when I remember they aren't normal!) and I would say compulsory vacc. would be a lesser evil. And then, only rational in reverse age order.

Or no compulsory vaccination AND no general restrictions AND some way of not overloading healthcare system.

covid, ethics 

@douginamug
I'm not sure the healthcare system is under particular stress right now. IIRC deaths are almost in line with historical trends re seasonal flu.

However, portable ventilators which can be deployed in homes seem like the obvious way to create the necessary capacity.

covid, ethics 

@cjd @douginamug In the Netherlands, less seriously affected patients are sent home with an oxygen tank. But the limiting factor isn't ventilators or beds, it's skilled medical personnel who can monitor patients on ventilators and intervene if their situation worsens.

covid, ethics 

@michiel @douginamug
Once a person is on a ventilator, what is the next level of intervention that is possible?

I was under the impression that a ventilator was about all that current medical procedures had available.

covid, ethics 

@cjd @douginamug from what I understand, COVID patients frequently suffer from kidney failure. They're kept sedated so that they can tolerate the ventilator, which means their vitals mut be monitored. Their lungs and throat must be manually cleaned of mucus. Obviously they are fed with a feeding tube, they have to pee using a katheter (which must be emptied), etc.

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