@atoponce That's annoying. Because a douch (Enrico here) presents the most stupid argument - or troll against this rushed and unproven yet vaccine (long term people, long term!) - people like Linus jump into the place with sounded argument but discard the fact that we don't have the data, we are close to summer so, case drops AND this disease is mild for most!

@hicks
Whatever the long term effects of the various vaccines might br, they are likely a pittance compared to the long term effects of COVID-19. (Writing this from a vaccination center where I just got vaccinated 💉)
@atoponce

@awaspnest
- First: "Whatever" is not acceptable. I do hope you are not MD.
- Second: Show me the data about the long term effects of COVID-19 (severity, demographic, etc...)
- Third: 0.04% of the global population died allegedly of the COVID19. When I say "allegedly" I don't pretend COVID does not kill but it might be not the only/main factor in most cases.
- Fourth: Where is the hurry?

@atoponce

@hicks
The hurry is that people are dying and the virus is mutating... Ultimately, it seems like most "intelligent" arguments against getting vaccinated boil down to "no amount of risk is worth protecting others." Which I find quite antisocial.
@atoponce

@awaspnest
There is known safe treatment for Covid, vax not needed. No known treatments for side effects of vax. Vax uses gene therapy technology. Recovery rate of C19 is 99.8%. majority of those who died where: over 70yo, obese, underlying conditions.
All the above is verifiable.
It's not about the virus!
@hicks @atoponce

@Horizon_Innovations
The recovery rate for mRNA vaccines is 100%. Old People and obese people are people too, who also deserve not to die.
@hicks @atoponce

@awaspnest
No one deserves to die. According to official reporting, over 5k in US & over 12k in Europe have died from C19 vax, needlessly. HCQ & ivermectin both work well & don't have a side effect of death.
@hicks @atoponce

@Horizon_Innovations @awaspnest @hicks

FUD.

5,208 have died from 302,000,000 vaccinations in the United States, or a rate of 0.0017%.

596,572 deaths from 33,259,537 confirmed cases in the United States, or a race of 1.79%.

That's an unvaccinated death rate of 1,000 times, or three full orders of magnitude compared to those who are vaccinated.

The vaccinations are safe and effective. Stop spreading antivax FUD.

@atoponce
I'm not antivax in general. I am against gene therapy drugs that aren't needed. Your figures show those who died from C19 without treatment of ivermectin or HCL, so the survival rate should be higher. The swine flu vax was pulled at 53 deaths, how many more should die before this "vax" should be pulled? How many "vax" deaths are ok as collateral damage, "for the greater good"? And the "vax" trials don't finish until 2023!

@awaspnest @hicks

@Horizon_Innovations
I'm not an expert–I'm just doing my best to echo the consensus of experts (Which is that the all COVID Vaccines released so far are safe/effective) I understand why you think those links say that there are Covid vaccines utilizing gene therapy, but if you read them they don't.
@atoponce

@Horizon_Innovations @atoponce
asgct.org/research/news/novemb really does seem to indicate that the Vacinee Candidates (at that point) were utilizing gene therapy—However, this indication isn't enough overcome the actual text + videos on the page which clearly show that the genes are not modified in cells receiving the mRNA.

@Horizon_Innovations
academic.oup.com/intimm/advanc Does have "utilizing gene therapy technology" in the title, but if you read more of the paper, you see that they are stating that they are using technology developed for gene therapy, but not modifying the genes in anyway. Nowhere does it indicate that any approved vaccines are modifying cells' genes.

@Horizon_Innovations
fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologi
"Gene therapy is a technique that modifies a person’s genes to treat or cure disease."

These vaccines are less invasive than SARS-CoV-2, because viruses infect your cells with DNA/RNA in order to take control, but aren't concerned with whether if you (or the cell) survive or not.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus
"When infected, a host cell is forced to rapidly produce thousands of copies of the original virus."

Obligatory xkcd: xkcd.com/2397/

@awaspnest
I'm not here to argue, just help people think beyond the narrative. & Dr Fauci lied!
I'll leave you with this:
When an injection puts synthetic RNA (genes) into your cells to produce a spiked protein that's meant to illicit an immune response. 1. your cells are not meant to produce a spiked protein because 2. They are a toxin.
The C19 "vax" 1. does not stop infection, 2. does not stop transmission. These 2 are what vaccines are meant to do.
Given these details, what is this injection?

@Horizon_Innovations To your other points:
1) Your cells are quite flexible in what they can do, if you get Covid-19 they'll be producing the same spike protein + a lot more.
2) The efficacy of these vaccines has been answered elsewhere in this thread, but look at case study consider Israel: ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

@awaspnest Again, while we should appreciate details about this vaccine, this is the wrong discussion IMHO.
Like @Horizon_Innovations said: there's no proof it stops infection and transmission. That's enough to me.
This kind of rush and new target to reach is just a political move in front of a mild disease - for 99.x% of the population.

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@hicks @Horizon_Innovations Actually, you might be surprised to learn that the effect of these vaccines on transmission and infection has been studied, and they do greatly reduce transmission and infection.

cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7

cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0

nature.com/articles/s41591-021

biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/20 (Animal study 🐈)

There are also many articles summarizing these results.

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