I guess maybe not everyone will agree with this, but I believe there are limits to what a person can be learn.
So, when techies ask people to learn arbitrary tech mumbo-jumbo, they have implicitly decided that this tech thing is more important than whatever else they'll lose/skip/forget to make room for it.
Making tech easy for people is respecting the fact that they may have other priorities in life.
@HerraBRE On the flip-side if I want to use a circular saw there are some basic skills I will need to learn in order to use the tool properly.
I see tech as nothing different.
Even a sewing machine (one of the oldest pieces of mechanical "tech" around) requires skill and if you just step up to one you're likely not going to produce a good result from it.
@gme That is why we have IKEA and you can buy ready-made clothes in the store.
It's important that the tools exist and that people have access to them, but progress is about giving people the benefits without making them do everything from scratch.
For some reason techies fail to understand that maybe not everyone wants - or should need - to learn to use their favourite equivalent to a circular saw.
@HerraBRE It's the AOL-ification of the Internet. :-)
@gme Perhaps? Is that bad?
If techies hadn't been so busy making snide remarks and looking down their noses at the unwashed AOL-masses... would we have been able to guide them to something less awful than #Facebook?
That's today's AOL, and it's a nightmare.
There's long been this us-vs-them attitude, where as long as the techies have privacy, tools and freedom, they don't object to the masses getting screwed. That's 90% of Open Source.
I was as elitist as anyone, but I kinda regret it now.
@HerraBRE I think most of it boils down to is if the masses knew everything that the techies know then the techies wouldn't feel special anymore.
@gme @HerraBRE I think it's a lot simpler than that - too many "techies" (I don't like that term but don't know what else to use in this particular context) are just really quite terrible at understanding anyone else's world view. They design for themselves and have no conception that any other point of view or level of experience even exists. I see this all the time across all parts of tech.
@tw @gme That's a more charitable - and probably in many cases more true - take on things.
The problem is that we, as a profession and class, benefit from the situation. Job security, prestige, etc.
That means that, at the very least, there are insufficient incentives to change things and make tech more accessible, unless there's an [often] exploitative business model driving things.
@gme
<ironic_tone>
And all this wimpy Script-Language-Users unabe to understand how things really work and what memory is and how soldering smells, how to debug with an oscilloscope and they know neither cuneiform nor akkadian ;)
</ironic_tone>
We should definitely respect more the lack of interest of others (and many other choices), than we do most of the time. But maybe our lack of interest in their issues with our software is something quite similar.
@HerraBRE I agree with what you're saying most of the time you do realize that right? ๐
@HerraBRE @gme I think the difference is that people who don't know how to sew their own clothes or build furniture can only harm themselves.
For self-built vehicles or helicopters, there are regulations for a good reason. But anyone can set up a poorly secured server, even if they become part of the DDoS and spam problem.
@gme @HerraBRE In other words: everyone should be allowed to use public transport, but I think it would be wrong to allow everyone to build their own vehicles and drive without knowing traffic rules.
So for users I would agree that they don't need to know too much tech stuff, but if they want to be more than just a user they should know the implications of what they are doing.
@HerraBRE Yes, I've (mostly) stopped explaining things. Which is to say stopped over-explaining things. I was the classic "ask a geek what time it is and he'll tell you how to build a watch". I was somehow unable to detect people's eyes glazing over. I once had a client say "Now paul, I'm about to ask you a question. Just answer yes or no, nothing more -- understand? Just yes or no. Now here comes the question..."
@HerraBRE
I don't think this a terribly controversial view anymore. UX is generally a priority unless its just a personal or developer internal tool.
@frostotron I wouldn't have been inspired to toot that if I hadn't found myself debating these issues, more than once, quite recently...
There are loads of techies out there who think fixing the user is an acceptable solution.
No. It's a #moral obligation!
We are just like ancient Egyptian scribes: we don't get our #power from knowing how to write (code) and (some of us) how to read (code).
Our power comes from others' #ignorance.
And just how people are forced to learn to read, write and count at #school, we should force them to #learn #programming: to enable their #freedom.
Thanks to people challenging the cultural #elitism centuries ago, we can read #laws.
And we should make the things we create easy to learn.
@grainloom @HerraBRE @frostotron
#Simplicity is not easy to achieve but it is #easy to use, understand and learn.
However, until we complete the #Matrix #brain plug, to learn will always requires an effort.
And actually, if I learnt something from my daughters, it's that what is valuable always requires to sacrifice time, fatigue and effort.
@HerraBRE Agreed. I still don't know what a "blockchain" is even though people have described it to me multiple times. To me it reads like a chain of blocks against people. Even the jargon is getting confused on itself.
As far as I know what a blockchain /is/, sounds like a 'franchise'
@maverynthia I would enjoy trying to explain it!
But until people can use it (whatever it is, block-chains are a fine example) without needing to know how it works, in my opinion it isn't finished.
@HerraBRE yup. so much of being successful when young in tech is having patience to learn tons of esoterica. It should be easier to learn the basics and deliver adequate projects with less of that.
@HerraBRE Hi! I very much agree!
Realized this recently, now I try to be aware of cognitive-load* the documentation and code I write imposes on the audience.
I found that limiting editor spellcheck dictionary to top-10k** English words keeps me aware of my choice of words - and should be accessible to non-native English speakers as well.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_load
** 7.5k may be better but feels constrained and I was tempted to ignore spellcheck more often, details: http://testyourvocab.com/blog/2011-07-25-New-results-for-foreign-learners
@hiway That's a really cool idea!
My work-flows don't usually include spell-checkers, aside from the one built in to the browser. I wonder if I can configure it at all?
@HerraBRE Have not looked into spellcheck for browsers yet, but now that you mention itโฆ *wanders away*
Found something: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Persdict.dat
On MacOS, I can see it under `~/Library/Application Support/Firefox/Profiles/SOMEHASH.default/persdict.dat
@HerraBRE And here is the wordlist I am using: https://github.com/first20hours/google-10000-english
@HerraBRE I can match a Star Trek episode to any life situation, but I can't remember the last time referencing something tech-related was useful.
@HerraBRE
There is no limits really to what you can learn..but there is limited time in life to learn, become competent at it and to maintain competency.
@HerraBRE @Antanicus I don't think learning new things takes up space in that way; each new thing you learn is just another pattern in the world and can be compared to others and mentally integrated. Make things easy, sure, but don't hide what they really are, or you're making them harder for everyone in the long term.
@HerraBRE I totally agree, but keep in mind that making tech easy is hard! Some days, just getting it to work right seems like a miracle.
This concept goes far beyond techies. Any time someone is really passionate about something we often project on others and assume everyone else would be into it as well.
@HerraBRE While I can no longer be bothered to force others to learn (as long as they keep paying me), I have at no time ever truly forgotten anything. And I keep learning. And I'm decidedly average. I think the exercise you get for your brain at an early age determines this and that the brain is in no danger of 'filling up' for at least 500 years.
@AskChip I've forgotten so many things. So, so many.
But I knew people would disagree with that point. I don't have citations, it's fine. Maybe it's not a meaningful limitation.
I will however point out that learning takes time, and EVERYONE has limited time. So, the main point still stands either way.
@HerraBRE I suppose, because of the way I was brought up, that I can learn many things fairly quickly and easily that it doesn't seem like work at all, in fact I enjoy it. I do rail against what I feel to be a concerted effort against learning anything at all. This I've seen far too often. People who readily admit to NOT wanting to learn.
@HerraBRE You don't even need a limit on how much you can fit in your head - there's 100% a limit on how much time you have in your life to spend learning things.
Time you ask people to spend learning your software is time they could spend learning useful things, enjoying their lives, or just having a nice nap.
Bad UX literally saps your life away.