One of the problems shared by many social media platforms, is the "pile on" effect. Someone says something dumb and the entire Internet shows up on their doorstep to mock them.
Twitter has this problem in spades, it's one of the reasons it has a bad reputation for harassment.
As far as I know, there is nothing technically preventing the same problem here in the #fediverse though.
If it became a social norm to just star people who have already responded instead of piling on, that would help.
@pettter I think the problem is that each individual may be responding reasonably. But sheer volume matters.
When is it a dogpile? After the third response? The tenth?
The basic attitude should, I think, be not to blow up someone's moment of being stupid on the internet. I.e. if you respond, don't dot-reply (or whatever the equivalent thing is). If you want to spread the thing on, do so with blacked-out-screenshots rather than a direct link to the post (unless you _want_ to start a dogpile - it's sometimes a valid tactic).
@HerraBRE Totally agree; I brought this up a few days ago. No silver bullets I can think of yet though: https://toot.cafe/@nolan/108676
@HerraBRE i mean that's already happened several times here
Just without the @mentions, so it isn't quite as annoying for the subject
@HerraBRE I dunno how you solve that problem technically though, if you're on a platform where "you are visible to the entire world" and "anyone you are visible to can message at you" are true.
.@jalefkowit I think the user interface can help by encouraging or discouraging certain things - this is an interesting area for research and innovation.
But at the end of the day it's a social problem and not all social problems have technical solutions. Maybe we collectively need to learn to behave better.
@HerraBRE Yeah. Jon Ronson's book "So You've Been Publicly Shamed" has some interesting things to say on the subject. I don't agree with 100% of them, but it's an important problem.
@HerraBRE @jalefkowit @NthTensor
Agreed on not all social problems have technical solutions. The idea that this isn't necessarily linear is very interesting from a social standpoint: I'd love to see what happens, or does not happen, with the age-old bandwagon here.
@NicePoint @jalefkowit @HerraBRE I think, strangely enough, this is a problem that can be fixed with migration.
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If the internet piles on, in the federation, you should be able to move.
@NthTensor @HerraBRE @jalefkowit
Ah, like Westward Expansion in the US early days? Hopefully Manifest Destiny is avoided though. I totally want my own ranch in California, but I'd like to avoid the bloodshed and the dysentery!
@NthTensor @NicePoint @jalefkowit I think I disagree, but it's a point worth considering.
If migration becomes seamless, the harassment follows you to your new identity. If it isn't seamless, then you have been driven from your social circle, bullied into moving.
That doesn't seem like a win either way...
@HerraBRE @NicePoint @jalefkowit Fair point. It is also worth noting mastodon has the same inbuilt flaws of more centralized systems that employ algorithms to suggest popular media.
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The more people pile on on twitter, the more the algorithm suggests it.
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The more people pile on here, the more it will federate.
@jalefkowit @HerraBRE I think the key is not everybody should be able to message everybody all the time. If they can, this will become the same thing as birdsite and people will get harassed.
Currently instances can block other instances, but that's a blunt hammer.
We should be able to identify trolls, add them collaboratively to a list, and let users block the whole list.
Toot about the need for lists:
https://social.tchncs.de/@teleclimber/772978
@teleclimber @jalefkowit I really dislike lists. They are blunt, frequently abused instruments.
@jalefkowit @HerraBRE it depends how the list is put together and maintained.
A list made by a central authority, sure, ripe for abuse by that authority.
But a list maintained openly using criteria that are as well defined as can be should be less susceptible to abuse.
in any case, better that than waiting for people to learn to behave decently!
@HerraBRE Although I'd say its status as a problem is relative to who's being piled on. Less worried about fairness with someone powerful v. someone less-powerful; less worried if they are a bigot than if it's over their identity.
@paulsheprow My post was mostly intended to encourage people to be mindful of this issue.
The debate over who "deserves" or "can take" what is basically online bullying is not one I want to get into. Everyone will have their own personal shitlist of people who "need punishing." 😞
@HerraBRE Totally, personally I worry more about what doing it does/would do to myself. I appreciate your attention to nuance w/ this stuff.
"If it became a social norm to just star people who have already responded instead of piling on, that would help." --@HerraBRE https://mastodon.xyz/users/HerraBRE/updates/97718
When folks advocate for the star to be something *other* than a save button, it means the save function is serving a social purpose, and my saved post list becomes cluttered.
See also: https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/1178 My request to separate the "like" and "save" functions into two buttons!
@cassolotl Talk about missing the forest for your favourite tree... 😄
Anyway, the star is obviously serving a social purpose already, that is clearly its intent. Otherwise it wouldn't be advertising that you've clicked it.
My advocated use case is perfectly in-line with what the button currently does.
A private save button would behave very differently. That's a totally legit thing to want, but don't complain about people using the existing features for what they are.
@HerraBRE I'm not complaining! The way you're proposing we use it is the best we've got with what we have. And you proposing a private save button alongside what we currently have is pretty much what my feature request suggests. :) I hadn't thought about it being private but now that you mention it, it makes complete sense.
But yeah. Public like/support/heart, private save. Separate functions, one social, one practical.
And that instances where dogpile-helping behaviour is rewarded/not checked might be identified fairly easy.