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Freyr [↪️ awoo.space] @fallerOfFalls@octodon.social

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Wack Playstation Sup! 🙊 🇮🇸 🍏 @HerraBRE

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Freyr [↪️ awoo.space] @fallerOfFalls@octodon.social

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Wack Playstation Sup! 🙊 🇮🇸 🍏 @HerraBRE

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Freyr [↪️ awoo.space] @fallerOfFalls@octodon.social

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Wack Playstation Sup! 🙊 🇮🇸 🍏 @HerraBRE

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Bob Mottram @bob@social.freedombone.net
@herrabre @falleroffalls if the fediverse continues to increase in numbers of active users then I expect there to be a variety of approaches towards resolving the problems of social relations. Instances which recruit a voluntary or perhaps even professional police force (if they can get donations for that) will eventually just duplicate the problems of the silos. You end up with a bureaucracy and a system of rules, and then it becomes a question of who makes the rules. Even if you started out with the intention of reducing harassment, or whatever, before you know it you've got the same old familiar problems.

The people who want to use blocks as a political tactic to pressure this or that admin are just trying to create a status hierarchy with themselves at the top of a chain of command. It's a familiar game.
Wack Playstation Sup! 🙊 🇮🇸 🍏 @HerraBRE

@bob @fallerOfFalls The counterpoint to that, is that when there are no rules then the weakest suffer.

Having a hierarchy isn't always a bad thing. Having rules isn't always a bad thing. Even having a benevolent dictator can be a great solution, as long as it lasts.

Extremes tend to be wrong, no matter which direction they take.

Bob Mottram @bob@social.freedombone.net
@herrabre @falleroffalls I don't think dictators are ever good, because all of them without exception believe that they're doing the right thing in accordance with what their narrative tells them is the correct moral code. This is why I think it's better to keep the ratio of rulers to ruled over as close to one as possible. When it becomes small, then trouble is assured.
Wack Playstation Sup! 🙊 🇮🇸 🍏 @HerraBRE

@bob @fallerOfFalls Trouble is assured either way.

Your "no rulers" utopia has no provisions to deal with assholes, let alone mobs of assholes who mobilise of their own volition to mistreat other people.

As soon as people start working together - whether on defense or offense or just creative projects, you get hierarchies and rulers, defacto or otherwise.

That's humanity.

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Bob Mottram @bob@social.freedombone.net
@herrabre @falleroffalls on the question of what is humanity, this is always in contention. For the vast majority of history we lived in small groups of not much more than a few families. We're well adapted to that kind of scale, and in that type of society the anthropological evidence suggests that they're mostly egalitarian.

When you apply the small scale psychology to large cities or nations then it becomes dysfunctional. The attempt to work around this is to invent bureaucratic structures and recruit police forces to ensure that rules are followed, but all that really does is create a privileged class who lord it over the rest. This kind of dynamic is why many of use stayed out of the silos to begin with.
Wack Playstation Sup! 🙊 🇮🇸 🍏 @HerraBRE

@bob @fallerOfFalls Now we're getting pretty philosophical, but I'd like to point out that these large bureaucratic structures aren't pure evil.

They're the reason we're not mostly dead of measles, the reason we have CPUs with billions of transistors and the reasons violent crime is probably at its lowest point in all of recorded history.

Just sayin'. Working together, at scale, does have a few advantages. 😎

pettter ✅ @pettter@social.umeahackerspace.se
@bob @herrabre @falleroffalls If you haven't already read it, may I recommend "The Dispossessed" by Ursula K Le Guin? It touches some of these themes.
Dr. Edward Morbius ❌ @dredmorbius@mammouth.cafe

@HerraBRE @bob @fallerOfFalls Iron Law of Oligarchy, Robert Michelss, "Political Parties", 1911.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_l

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